Uwo mwanzuro ni umwe mu yafashwe n’Inama Nkuru ya gisirikare mu gicuku cyo ku wa Gatandatu tariki 28 Ukwakira 2022, yateranye yiga ku bibazo by’umutekano muke mu Burasirazuba bwa Congo. Yayobowe na Perezida Felix Tshisekedi.

Ni inama yabaye mu gihe imirwano ikomeje hagati y’ingabo z’icyo gihugu (FARDC) n’umutwe wa M23 ukomeje kwigarurira uduce twinshi muri Kivu y’Amajyaruguru.

Byongeye, Minisitiri w’Ububanyi n’Amahanga wa RDC, Christophe Lutundula, yahamagaje Chargé d’Affaires w’igihugu cye mu Rwanda, Alice Kimpembe Bamba, mu ibaruwa inamenyesha uwari waragenwe nka Ambasaderi mushya mu Rwanda ko atagomba gutanga impapuro zimwemerera izo nshingano.

Congo imaze iminsi ishinja u Rwanda gushyigikira M23 nubwo rwo rwagiye rubihakana, rugaragaza ko ari ibibazo by’imbere muri politiki ya Congo, ahubwo rugashinja icyo gihugu gukorana n’umutwe wa FDLR.

Impungenge ni zose ko ubushyamirane hagati y’u Rwanda na Congo bushobora kurushaho gufata indi ntera, by’umwihariko nyuma y’aho Guverinoma itangarije ko ingabo zayo ziryamiye amajanja.

IGIHE yaganiriye n’Umuvugizi wungirije wa Guverinoma y’u Rwanda, Alain Mukuralinda, agaruka ku mwuka mubi uri hagati y’u Rwanda na Congo, iyirukanwa rya Ambasaderi Karega, ibirego by’uko u Rwanda rushaka kwigarurira Congo runyuze muri M23, n’ibindi.

IGIHE: Congo yabamenyesheje ite ko ambasaderi w’u Rwanda yirukanywe?

Mukuralinda: Uburyo byakozwe nkurikije ibyo abafite ubunararibonye muri dipolomasi baraye badusobanuriye, ntabwo bikorwa utabanje guhamagara ambasaderi ngo muganire unamubwire icyemezo mugiye gufata, cyangwa se niba mwagifashe, umuhamagare ubanze ukimubwire na we ntaze kubibona kuri televiziyo.

Ni ukuvuga ko Ambasaderi w’u Rwanda yabiboneye kuri televiziyo?

Ukurikije uko byagenze na we yabibonye nk’uko twabyutse twese tukabibona. Inama yarabaye icyemezo kirafatwa, umuvugizi wa Guverinoma aragisoma bijya ku mbuga nkoranyambaga no kuri televiziyo.

Ambasade y’u Rwanda irasigara ikora ite?

Irakomeza ikore. Birukanye Ambasaderi ntabwo bafunze Ambasade kandi ambasade ntabwo ikoramo ambasaderi wenyine […] Ambasade irahari irakomeza ikore, ntabwo bavuze ko ambasade bayifunze, ko u Rwanda na Congo bicanye umubano. Zirakomeza zikore ibintu biganirweho kugeza igihe bisubiriye mu murongo.

Uhagarariye Congo mu Rwanda we muramukorera iki?

Abantu babanze bamenye ko RDC nta ambasaderi igira hano, hashize imyaka igera ku icumi. Hari umudamu uhari ufata ibyemezo mu mwanya wa ambasaderi. Igihe batafashe icyemezo cyo kumwohereza ntabwo wabategeka kumwohereza ariko ambasade yabo irafunguye.

Mu bya dipolomasi, ntabwo buri gihe uko igihugu gifashe umwanzuro runaka ariko n’ikindi gihugu kigomba kubigenza […] itangazo Guverinoma y’u Rwanda yasohoye ntabwo yigeze ishyiramo ko yirukanye uhagarariye Ambasaderi wa RDC mu Rwanda, niba ntabyo yatangaje, ibiri mu itangazo nibyo bigomba gukorwa.

Guverinoma y’u Rwanda yavuze ko ibona Guverinoma ya Congo igenda izamuka mu ntera mu gushyushya imitwe, ntabwo rero waba ubibona uvuga ko atari bwo buryo bwagombye gukoreshwa kugira ngo ibibazo bishakirwe umuti, ngo nawe ujye muri uwo mujyo. Niba umwe ashyushye na we ugashyushya byazageza he?

Ntabwo Guverinoma y’u Rwanda irirukana uhagarariye RDC?

Abantu nibagendere ku itangazo Guverinoma y’u Rwanda yakoze, bishaka kugira ikindi bongeraho. Nigira ikindi yongeraho, izabivuga. Ntabwo yamuhamagaje, ntabwo yamwirukanye, nta rwandiko yamuhaye.

Congo yatangaje ko ishobora kugabanya urujya n’uruza ku mipaka yayo n’u Rwanda, mwabyakiriye mute?

[…] Umuntu uturiye umupaka wari usanzwe ajyayo bitewe n’icyo agiye gukorayo yaba ari ukwiga, kwivuza, guhaha, gusura abantu, Guverinoma y’u Rwanda iramubwira ngo mushishoze. Niba ubona ibintu wakoragayo bitari ngombwa, ushobora no kuba ubisubitse.

Alain Mukuralinda yavuze ko nta mpamvu yo gukomeza guhangana na RDC mu buryo bwa dipolomasi

Biriya byemezo bifatwa kuriya wabonye ukuntu abaturage babyakira. Ejo biriwe mu mihanda batwika amabendera, ubona ko akenshi bigaragambya baza ku mupaka. Ubushize urabizi ko hari uwaje arasa na we abigwamo, bivuze ngo n’Umunyarwanda agomba kuvuga ati ‘ibi bintu mu gihe bitarahosha ngomba gusesengura, ngomba kwitwararika niba atari ngombwa ko njya muri Congo mbaye mbyihoreye’.

Ku makuru mufite, umutekano w’Abanyarwanda bari muri Congo wifashe ute?

Kugeza ubu umutekano wabo urahungabana muri ubwo buryo bw’uko abantu badatinya guhamagararira abandi kubahohotera, ni nayo mpamvu tuvuga ko nabo ubwabo bagomba kwigengesera ariko tunasaba RDC kubarindira umutekano, ni inshingano zayo.

Ntawe urumva hano umunye-Congo yagize ikibazo, yanakigize uwakimuteye yabiryozwa. Kuva igihe ibi byatangiye kuzamuka, ndumva nta munye-Congo wigeze avuga ko yahuye n’ikibazo kuko barindiwe umutekano n’inzego zibifitiye ububasha, no muri Congo niko bikwiriye kugenda.

Mwavuze ko ingabo z’igihugu ziryamiye amajanja, ku rundi ruhande mugaragaza ko FARDC na FDLR bari kwisuganya, ibi ntabwo bisura intambara?

Oya ntabwo bisura intambara. Ni ukuvuga ko u Rwanda rugomba gukurikirana ibibera ku butaka bwarwo, n’ibibera hakurya rugomba gushaka amakuru kubera ko imwe mu mitwe ivugwa hariya yakagombye kurwanywa […] aho kugira ngo FDLR irwanywe, ahubwo ingabo za Congo zifatanya nayo mu bitero zigaba hirya no hino. Ntaho turabona ubuyobozi bwa Congo bubyamagana.

Congo ivuga ko FDLR nta kibazo cy’umutekano iteje u Rwanda…

Ibyo bavuga biri aho, n’ibikorwa biri aho kandi hari n’ibimenyetso. Reka dufate urugero kuri raporo yasohotse mu kwa gatanu, ariko sinyitindaho kuko yasohotse mu buryo budasobanutse […] Harimo amapaji avuga ati ‘tariki runaka, aha n’aha hari Jenerali wa FARDC, Colonel wa FDLR, bakoze inama bemeranya ibi’. Ni izo mpuguke za Loni zibivuga nk’uko zihindukira zikavuga n’ibindi .

FDLR uko yarwana kose, ntabwo ishaka kurwana ijya i Kinshasa, FDLR icyo igamije ni ukurwana iza mu Rwanda haba Rubavu, Musanze [..] ni icyo igamije.

Niba hari ibyo bafatanya bakarwanya iyo mitwe yindi na M23, nibaramuka batsinze iyo mitwe [FDLR] izaryama cyangwa hari ibyo bayemereye? Ubwo se ibyo u Rwanda rwabimenya rukiryamira cyangwa rwaryamira amajanja? Gusa ntabwo bivuze ko ejo hagomba kuba intambara. U Rwanda ntabwo rushaka intambara.

Hari amakuru mufite ko FDLR yaba ishaka gutera?

FDLR intumbero yayo ntabwo ari ukujya i Kinshasa, Matadi, Kasai n’ahandi, intumbero yayo ni Rubavu, Musanze, Nyamasheke, bagize n’Imana bakaza bakagera i Kigali bakagarukira Rusumo. Ntabwo rero bigomba gusaba amakuru ahambaye.

Kuba Congo ikomeje gushinja u Rwanda kenshi ko rufasha M23, si ibyo kwibazwaho?

Kuvuga ibintu kenshi ntabwo bivuze ko ari ukuri. Reka duhere mu 2012 hashize imyaka icumi, nta gishya kirimo bahora babivuga. Babivuga kugira ngo bahishire impamvu banga gukora icyo bagomba gukora ngo icyo kibazo gikemuke.

Niba ibiganiro bya Nairobi bivuga ko hagomba koherezwayo ingabo ngo zifashe kwirukana iyo mitwe, umuntu wa mbere ugomba gutangiza iyo gahunda ngo ishyirwe mu bikorwa ni nde? Ni Guverinoma ya RDC.

Uyu munsi se yatwereka ko yavuze iti twahamagaje inama nimuze dutangirire rimwe?[…] ni aho bakwiriye gushyira ingufu.

Mubona impamvu batabikora ari ukubera iki?

Ni ubushake bwa politiki.

Ubushake buke bufite ikindi kibyihishe inyuma?

Kimwe cyaragaragaye ejobundi! Nibwo bwa mbere Umuvugizi wa Guverinoma ya Congo yavuze ati ‘niba umutekano utaje muri aka karere ntabwo amatora azaba’. None se umuntu w’umuyobozi usigaje amezi 15 ngo amatora abe, aho gushyira ingufu mu gukemura ibibazo bihari ngo amatora azabe, ashyira ingufu mu gutangira kuvuga ngo amatora ntakibaye? Mu yandi magambo bari kuvuga ngo amatora ntazaba kubera u Rwanda. Ibyo ni ukwivuguruza.

None se mu myaka itanu ishize, imitwe yari ihari iharwanira, ariko amatora yarabaye. Ikindi urabizi ko hariya [Kivu y’Amajyaruguru] bahagize agace k’intambara, bakuraho abayobozi ba gisivile, bongera umubare w’abasirikare, ibikoresho, intwaro n’ibindi byose kugira ngo bagere ku nshingano bahawe zo kugarura amahoro muri ako gace. None se wavuga ko nyuma y’umwaka amahoro yagarutse?

Nutangira kujya kwiyamamaza abaturage ba hariya icya mbere bazakubaza ngo ‘ko wahagize agace k’imirwano ko nta musaruro byatanze’, guverinoma izasubiza gute? […] ntabwo ushobora kuvuga ko ikibazo kimaze imyaka 20 kizakemurwa n’imirwano.

Kuba Amerika iherutse gusaba u Rwanda guhagarika gufasha M23, bivuze iki?

Kiriya kibazo kimaze imyaka kandi abantu bose bareba. Barabizi ko kitazakizwa n’intambara. Barabizi ko hatabarizwayo umutwe umwe, raporo zabo zivuga imitwe 130. Igihe cyose batazafata ikibazo muri rusange bihereye kuri ba nyiri ubwite […] ntabwo kizakemuka.

Ko igice cya M23 yateye ari icyaturutse muri Uganda, kuki ari u Rwanda buri gihe ruvugwa?

Ntabwo ndi mu mitwe n’imitekerereze y’abayobozi ba Congo ariko ku rundi ruhande si ndi umwana, ndasesengura.

Nshobora kuvuga ngo iki kintu gituma babidushyiraho, ni uko abagira icyo bababaza ari b’abanye-Congo kubera amateka bakomoka mu Rwanda cyangwa bavuga Ikinyarwanda […] iryo huriro nkeka ko ariyo mpamvu iyo hagize ikiba bavuga ngo buriya bafashwa na bariya bavuga ururimi rumwe. Ntekereza ko iyo haza kuba abanye-Congo bavuga Ikigande nabyo biba bihari.

Abanye-Congo bashinja u Rwanda gushaka kwiyomekaho bimwe mu bice by’icyo gihugu, icyo gitekerezo kirahari?

Umuryango w’Ubumwe bwa Afurika ujyaho, bavuze ko imipaka uko iteye ntawe uzayikoraho. Umuntu wenyine ushobora kuvuga ko Congo icikamo ibice ni abanye-Congo bonyine kandi bo bahora bavuga ko Congo ari imwe. Bivuze ko undi muntu wese uzashaka guturuka hanze, kugira ngo abacemo ibice bo batabishaka, ntabwo bizashoboka.

Abanyarwanda bitware gute muri ibi bibazo?

Abanyarwanda barasabwa kumva ibyo Guverinoma yabo ibabwiye ntibashyuhe mu mitwe, niba ibabwiye ko nta byacitse, nta byacitse ihari kandi niba ibabwiye gushishoza […] bagomba gushishoza mbere yo kwambuka umupaka kuko ntufunze.

Niba bitari ngombwa, subika, niba ugiye kujyayo shaka amakuru, sesengura, ubone gufata icyemezo.