Uyu mugabo yari asanzwe ari Guverineri wa Machakos, mbere y’uko agirwa Minisitiri w’Ububanyi n’Amahanga muri Guverinoma nshya ya Perezida William Ruto.

Mu ruzinduko rwe yagiriye i Kigali mu mpera z’icyumweru gishize, yagiranye ibiganiro n’Umunyamabanga wa Leta muri Minisiteri y’Ububanyi n’Amahanga, Prof Nshuti Manasseh, ndetse nyuma anagirana ibiganiro n’Abanya-Kenya baba mu Rwanda.

Mu kiganiro na IGIHE, Mutua yagarutse ku ngingo zitandukanye zirimo umubano wa Kenya n’u Rwanda, amatora igihugu cye giherutsemo ndetse n’ibibazo by’umutekano muri Afurika y’Iburasirazuba.

IGIHE: Uruzinduko rwawe rwa mbere mu Rwanda rugamije iki?

Mutua: U Rwanda ni igihugu cy’ingenzi cyane kuri Kenya. Umubano wa Kenya n’u Rwanda uri kwaguka, wari usanzwe umeze neza ariko turashaka ko birutaho.

Dufitiye u Rwanda icyubahiro cyinshi Abanyarwanda, Guverinoma y’u Rwanda kandi turabizi ko hamwe n’umubano dufite, twese dushobora kwaguka mu bukungu. Impamvu ni uko umunsi ku wundi, icyo twitaho, ni iterambere ry’abaturage bacu.

Guverinoma nshya ya Kenya ni ibiki ishyize imbere mu mikoranire yayo n’iy’u Rwanda?

Kenya iri kugana aho ubucuruzi buba ingenzi kurushaho kuko dukeneye kwagura ubukungu. Perezida wacu William Ruto akunze kubivuga ko udashobora guhana na mugenzi wawe ubukene ahubwo iterambere.

Turashaka gukorana n’u Rwanda ku buryo dukemura ikibazo icyo aricyo cyose cyahagarika ubucuruzi ndetse n’ihererekanywa ry’amafaranga mu baturage bacu.

Twitege abashoramari bashya biyongera kuri KCB, Equity n’abandi?

Turashaka kugana mu bijyanye n’inganda. Kuki tugura cure-dents mu mahanga? Ntabwo twazikorera muri EAC? Ntabwo u Rwanda rwakora ibicuruzwa ku buryo aho kugira ngo bitumizwe mu Burayi zijye zivanwa mu Rwanda? Ese Kenya ntiyakora imodoka ku buryo aho kuzikura mu mahanga, twajya tubona izakorewe muri Kenya mu karere kose?

Uko niko dukira, icyo ni ikiganiro Kenya iri kugirana n’u Rwanda kuko rurashoboye.

Kenya iherutse mu matora yarangiye nta mvururu ugereranyije n’andi yabaye mu myaka yabanje, kuri iyi nshuro mwabigezeho mute?

Impamvu ni uko turi igihugu cyemera demokarasi kandi cyemera n’uburenganzira bw’abaturage bwo guhitamo. Kenya yeretse Isi ko ishobora gukoresha amatora afite impande zihanganye kandi abantu bakemera intsinzi y’umuntu umwe, bati uyu ni Perezida wacu, reka dukomeza ubuzima, reka dukorere amafaranga.

Ni isomo rikomeye kuri Afurika, ko ushobora gukoresha amatora hanyuma uwatsinze akaba ariwe watsinze ubuzima bugakomeza.

Perezida William Ruto ahagaze he mu bibazo by’u Rwanda na RDC?

Guverinoma ya Kenya ishyigikiye ibyo Perezida Kagame yavuze ko ibibazo by’Abanyafurika byakemurwa nabo ubwabo. Rero iyo mitekerereze ni yo dufite, dukeneye gukemura ibibazo byacu.

Kenya imaze igihe igira uruhare mu biganiro bigamije kugarura amahoro muri Ethiopia hagati ya Guverinoma na Tigray kandi biri kugenda neza. Ubu duhanze amaso ibikorwa byo kugarura amahoro mu Burasirazuba bwa RDC.

Ayo mahoro azaboneka ate?

RDC imaze igihe kinini yarabaye indiri y’umwuka mubi, kuko birasa n’aho umutungo wayo wayibereye umuvumo [...] Abantu bakwiriye kujya impaka, zigamije igisubizo, bitagombereye kwicana, cyangwa se guheza iheruheru abandi.

Rero ni inyungu za Kenya ko duhuriza hamwe mu biganiro imitwe yose ifitanye ibibazo ikaganira. Impamvu ni uko intambara zose twabonye muri iyi si, zirangira abantu bicaye bakaganira.

Ikibazo rero gikwiriye kuba, ese dukwiriye kubanza kwica abana n’abagore, gutwika ibikorwaremezo, hanyuma nyuma birangiye tukicara tukagira ibyo twemeranya? Ahubwo ese dushobora kwicara uyu munsi mbere y’uko biba bibi kurushaho, tukagira ibyo twemeranya mu nyungu z’abaturage bacu. Ni yo mpamvu Kenya irajwe ishinga.

Mwamaze kohereza ingabo muri RDC ziri muri gahunda y’ubutabazi ya EAC, inshingano zazo ni izihe?

Izo ngabo zishobora kugira uruhare mu gusigasira amahoro no kuyashakisha kugira ngo twizere ko nta yindi mirwano no mu gihe ibiganiro bikomeje.

Kenya yavuze ko yiteguye kwakira iyi mitwe yose muri Kenya mu biganiro.

Wizeye bingana iki ko ibibazo muri RDC bizakemukira mu biganiro?

Yego ndabyizeye ko ibibazo muri Congo by’imitwe yitwaje intwaro n’ibindi bigaragara muri Congo ko bishobora gukemukira mu biganiro kandi buri wese akagenda yishimye. Ibyo byazana amahoro n’umutekano mu karere kuko aribyo buri wese ashaka.

Mbere y’uko uba Minisitiri wari Guverineri wa Machakos. Ubwo uheruka mu Rwanda wavuze ko hari byinshi wize, ni ibihe?

U Rwanda ni igihugu gifite isuku, reba ukuntu ushobora kwandikisha ubucuruzi bwabo, imirimo myinshi itari ngombwa yakorerwaga mu Biro yavuyeho mu Rwanda, hari amasomo menshi warwigiraho kugira ngo wihutishe uburyo ibintu bikorwa muri Kenya ku buryo tubasha gucuruza mu buryo bwisumbuyeho.

Minisitiri Dr Alfred Mutua aganira na IGIHE, kuri Ambasade ya Kenya i Kigali